Mike (00:03.133)
What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Ginger and Chocolate Podcast. I'm Mike and this is Lindsay.
Hello, how's it going?
Mike (00:10.535)
Hey, I am doing well today. It took me a couple of days. I just got back from a trip and, and, that was fun, tiring, emotionally draining. And I finally caught up in sleep. So I'm feeling like I'm back to full consciousness.
Lindsay (00:30.624)
Sweet. And we are going to talk about your trip in a little bit, because it's pretty interesting to me anyway. And I'm sure other people would be interested in hearing about the trip. So one thing we might want to mention is that we're rebooting the podcast. I know it's been like it has been it's been like two years, which is, you know, it was good, I think, to take a break because it was still pandemicy.
Mike (00:39.389)
Yeah.
Mike (00:45.469)
We are rebooting this podcast. It's been a couple of years.
Mike (00:53.565)
Yeah.
Mike (01:00.029)
Mm
Lindsay (01:01.885)
which was negatively affecting my health, everything, my mental health, emotional health. But I miss this so much. So I'm glad to be back.
Mike (01:12.667)
It's really good to be back with you, Lindsay. This is something I was looking back on all the past episodes we did and we talked to a lot of people. We talked to a lot of people. It was a lot of fun.
Lindsay (01:15.03)
Yeah.
Lindsay (01:22.498)
We did. It was a lot of fun and I was looking back at Facebook and at YouTube and I was like, first of all, there are 112 episodes on YouTube, which is, I was like, wow, we did do this for three years and we're like, we did it for three years, but actually that's, we did it for three freaking years, which is pretty amazing.
Mike (01:37.64)
Yeah.
Mike (01:47.847)
Yeah.
Lindsay (01:49.194)
And explains why I missed it so much and I missed you and your ginger self.
Mike (01:56.264)
Yes, it was. I think the just the time post pandemic time has been a bit of a head scratcher for me. I just. It's like 2019 doesn't seem that long ago. It seems like last year and and it seems like it was 10 years ago, so I don't know what to make of that statement, but that's how I feel.
Lindsay (02:19.776)
You know, I feel the same way. think it's like there's parts of my life that were on pause. so the things that were on pause, just seems like it was just yesterday. it's like I just kind of stopped those things. And then some things that I've been doing, dealing with my mental health.
Mike (02:26.686)
Mm
Lindsay (02:42.198)
You know, it seems like I've been doing it. Well, I have been doing it for my whole life, but it seems like this particular like circumstance has been sort of this long drag drawn out thing. Just working with my therapist and my psychiatrist and going to meetings and doing all the things that I need to do. But I was like, sometimes I just wish I would wake up and be like, not have any of these issues.
Mike (03:11.913)
I hear you there.
Lindsay (03:16.054)
me just wake up and be like a normie. don't know what they I guess people who don't have mental health like just wake up and they're like la la la and then they go do their day. That's what I'm imagining.
Mike (03:26.547)
Not addicted to anything. But well I don't know. I see yes and no because I don't think I'd be an Iron Man. I don't think you would be. Exactly.
Lindsay (03:28.864)
Hahaha
Lindsay (03:37.94)
Nope. And also, here's the upside of having mental health issues is that if you are taking care of them, you are very aware of what it's like for things to be really, really shitty in your life. And so when it's not shitty, when it's good, it feels really, really good. And I can have like a regular day. Yeah, yeah.
Mike (03:57.129)
Mm
Mike (04:02.055)
Yeah, you can appreciate it, right?
Lindsay (04:06.368)
Yeah, I can have a regular day and it's just a good, you know, regular, but it feels good because I'm like, everything's smoothed out, evened out. I'm doing the self care I need to do and life's good. Yeah. So, okay. Well, we're going to get into for the main body of the show, talking about your trip and why you took it and what happened while you're there.
Mike (04:18.611)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Lindsay (04:35.862)
but I do want to mention a little something that I'm going to be talking about over the course of, I think probably this whole year. I don't really know how long this is going to take, but I am taking, I'm laughing because you already said something funny about this, but I am trying Manjaro, which is tersepid. It's sort of like the next generation after a zempik and
Mike (05:03.027)
Mm -hmm.
Lindsay (05:05.644)
I'll just tell the listeners when I first said the word Monjaro to you, you said it sounds like an Italian food. does. Totally. my gosh. Is that what the capers and olive oil or is that with red sauce? so the reason I'm doing is because during the pandemic, I sorta had a double whammy. had pandemic.
Mike (05:12.038)
Sounds like a good pasta dish, right? Pasta da mangiaro.
Lindsay (05:33.516)
which a lot of people gained some weight during that time. And I definitely was, you know, self -soothing with food, but also I had the double whammy of having huge hormonal changes based on my age. And that also gave me thickening around the middle. And that's not the end of the world. I mean, vanity wise, I'm like, But the truth is I have all this visceral fat packed around my organs. And as a result,
I was diagnosed pre -diabetic and your girl doesn't want to have to be diabetic. no, I'm not trying to cut my feet off, but you're right. It's like, sometimes we think of diabetes like, well then you just get, you have insulin and you're okay. it's like, no, diabetes is a really, really gnarly disease to have. And it kills a lot of people.
Mike (06:12.467)
No, we're not trying to cut your feet off.
Mike (06:18.02)
Ha ha ha.
Lindsay (06:32.09)
And if you've read Peter Attia's or heard about Peter Attia's book Outlive, he talks about the four horsemen, know, brain things like dementia, heart disease. What's the other? let's see. Heart disease, brain disease, cancer and diabetes is one of the four horsemen that kill everybody who aren't killed from another, you know, something else. So I don't want that. And the idea is that if you
Mike (06:59.261)
Mm
Lindsay (07:01.73)
lose the visceral fat packed around your organs, then you are way less at risk and in my case probably won't have type 2 diabetes. So I'm taking this drug and I'm going to write some blog post just about it. A lot of people who are take ozempic and whatever for you know vanity reasons are acting as though like outwardly as though they
I did intermittent fasting, especially people that are like in the public eye. I did intermittent fasting. I just eat healthy. It's like, no, you're taking something and that's okay, but just say what you're doing so that people know. And so that's what I'm doing. So just wanted to share that little tidbit with you. That's the main thing I got going on in my life now is figuring out how to take this. It's a shot every week and I had to give, and you start giving yourself the shots. They just give you the drug after a couple of weeks and I had to do my first shot.
The other day in your stomach, you just pinch a little. I was afraid and Josh was like, it's just a shot. It's not a big deal. So and he's like, I go, well, then you help me and do it. And he. So I was like pinching some piece of my belly for him to put and he pulled the thing off and he was just like, I can't do it. can't do it. like, I thought it wasn't a big deal. So I ended up doing it, but.
Mike (07:58.301)
Yeah, how was it?
Mike (08:21.127)
You can do it,
Lindsay (08:26.092)
That was a first and it was terrifying. Anyhow, that is what I got going on.
Mike (08:34.535)
Yeah, that is I'm looking forward to tracking this with you, Lindsay and seeing just if there's side effects, you know, hopefully not. And then just, you know, the journey of losing that visceral fat and how it feels. So I'm looking forward to that. Yes.
Lindsay (08:47.394)
Yeah. Yeah. And seeing what my numbers end up, you know, my A1C is at like 6 .2 something. So I need to get below like, get it down. So it'll be interesting after a while to see what the numbers come back as. Okay. Before we talk about your trip, is there anything else you want to share? Anything you know, you got going on? Since we're just rebooting any catch up on pandemic stuff or anything like that?
Mike (09:18.761)
You know, I got a little fat over the last couple of years after a big break in training from the pandemic. You know, I think I, I white knuckled it until 2021. And then after that, I just, I think, I think for me, what happened was when the
vaccine for COVID wasn't the end all cure all everything that you know we thought it might be. I think I just kind of got deflated and stopped training as much so been working on that this year quite a bit. So I'll probably write some blogs about you know the ins and outs of that and what I'm doing now to address it but that's where I am and I've been doing a lot of
Lindsay (10:04.79)
Good.
Mike (10:09.353)
reflecting and the tough thing for me is not to compare myself to where I was in 2017 when I was at peak fitness for at least triathlon. Cause that just gets depressing. So, you know, looking at where I am now and how I improve.
Lindsay (10:25.57)
Yeah, and I'm excited to see you go through this process too. The comparing is definitely a challenge. And it's a natural thing for us to do, but seven years ago, Mike wasn't even 40 yet. So it's a little different feel when you get into the next decade. Just wait.
Mike (10:31.357)
Mm
Mike (10:44.955)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's true. That's so true,
Lindsay (10:54.878)
Okay, I want to hear all about your trip. Tell everybody what you did and just all about it.
Mike (10:57.801)
chopped into.
Mike (11:03.369)
So I went to Washington DC for the last better part of a week. And the reason I went out there was my platoon, parts of my platoon, we had a mini reunion and it was the, it's the 20th anniversary of a battle I fought in the battle of Fallujah in Iraq. And so
One, we wanted to get together and see each other because it's been about 20 years since I've seen these guys. And two, we were recording for my buddy Thomas, who's in my platoon, has a news agency called the War Horse. And so he's been tracking, you know, military and veteran news. And so we recorded interviews with him on video and audio.
And we also recorded a podcast with a group called Reveal. some of us spoke to a reporter for PBS NewsHour. So it was a lot of stuff. We were go, go, go the whole time.
Lindsay (12:17.612)
That's cool though. That's really neat that you guys got to see each other and that you got to kind of share the story with some media, PBS and your friends company. I think that's really neat thing to keep. I mean, I have no idea what this is like, but in a way, do you feel like keeping it?
Mike (12:23.601)
Yes.
Mike (12:30.227)
Mm -hmm.
Mike (12:41.694)
Yeah.
Lindsay (12:46.767)
acknowledging it and keeping it alive to a certain degree is helpful.
Mike (12:52.775)
Yes, it is. And it was hard. We had a few people not come because they were feeling a little too nervous. And I respect that. I respect that. And I acknowledge that. And it's normal for that to be the case. So nobody thinks any less of them. But it's an interesting thing when you go through an experience with other people in adverse circumstances.
So, you know, you bond a lot of times and that's no, no exception here. So we're all very close, but yet a lot of us have not been in touch as much because when you start talking, it reminds you of the worst time of your life for us, the most difficult time of your life and fluge Iraq in 2004. So being able to see people face to face and catch up was difficult at first, but really, really, really cool.
Lindsay (13:36.321)
Right.
Lindsay (13:50.282)
Yeah. And would you say, I mean, I don't see how this could have not had an impact. Would you say you guys were able to see kind of across everybody that there's a certain amount of like lasting impact, whether positive or negative?
Mike (14:07.761)
Yeah, we could all tell huge lasting impacts in terms of negative mental health consequences. A lot just about everybody with has post traumatic stress disorder and a lot of survivors guilt, some rural injury. And what the really cool thing was that
It's like she's our platoon mom now, Miss Kathleen Faircloth. She lost her son. Her son was killed when he was with us and we had the experience of getting to hang out with her for the week too. And I'd spent a little time with her here and there, but spending this much time and hearing her talk to, you know, like our corpsman, which is, you know, our medic.
Lindsay (14:39.574)
Hmm, that's cool.
Mike (14:50.705)
And people directly next to him when, when he was killed and be able to say, Hey, it's not your fault. You know, nothing you need to feel guilty about. You need to move through this. And, know, she's given essentially permission to everybody saying like, you don't need to judge yourself negatively about this. And seeing things like that take place was so good to see, so good to see. So there's a lot of hugging, a lot of, love yous and a lot of,
hanging out with guys that I did some pretty incredible things with 20 years ago back in 2004.
Lindsay (15:23.137)
Yeah.
Lindsay (15:27.315)
I have lots of questions, but I'll just say this. My experience is that I know nothing about really how various arms of the military work. I know nothing about what these wars are like or what happens in the wars or any of the things that happen.
The only thing I really know is like what I hear from news and or politicians, you know? So like, I feel like the word Fallujah, the term, the place, everybody in America knows that, but not because of it got a lot of press for what I feel are probably sensationalism reasons, you know what I mean? Not for...
Lindsay (16:21.006)
not because people are human beings that lost their life. We know there was loss of life, but it's like there's no real, this is a human being, this person lost their life, this actual human being, this is his family. It was more like there's a big fight and it's a big deal and it felt very, I think I feel really removed from it in a lot of ways. And I think...
Mike (16:34.867)
Mm
Lindsay (16:46.796)
Some Americans are aware that we're removed from what's actually happening and some people aren't. without going into detail about that, can you just explain a little bit about like, so if you're in the Marines, are you in a, I literally can't even, I don't know the words, like a group and then what happens? You get sent to a specific, like I don't even know like basic things. I think it'd be good to explain that.
Mike (17:13.437)
Yeah, yeah, and we could do a whole podcast on that and military culture and the different branches. What I can say probably for this purpose is for today is that the Marine Corps is one of the smaller branches of the military and they are attached to the Navy a lot of times right on Navy ships to wars and and usually get their the first conventional troops to get somewhere they can deploy quickly.
Lindsay (17:16.492)
For sure.
Mike (17:42.445)
and I'm biased but you know all Marines think we're the best you know but the difference is you know it's it's similar to the Army a lot of ways and you know there's the the different branches work together pretty closely between the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard.
And now the Space Force, I have no idea what they do. So, yeah, exactly. But so, you know, when the war started, I guess for this, our purposes today, as opposed to past wars, it used to be that there was a draft and people were
Lindsay (18:10.934)
mean, they're getting ready to go to space, When that...
Mike (18:32.967)
you know, conscripted drafted into the military and would go to war for maybe a year. They do one deployment and be done with their obligation to the military. Now, since it's an all volunteer force, we've seen people go, get deployed many times. A smaller segment of the population is deployed over and over and over. Now I've talked to people who have done seven, eight points. Yeah.
Lindsay (18:57.41)
So I have question about that.
So when you make the choice, OK, I'm going to go into the Marine Corps. I know I understand that at that point, decisions are you're going to someone else is going to make a lot of decisions. When you get deployed over and over, you're basically saying at the end of that one deployment, you don't really have a choice to say, like, I'm done because you have a specific amount of time that you've now agreed to. And they can do whatever during that. Is that kind of what you're saying?
Mike (19:32.499)
That's exactly what it's like. so most people sign up for a four year enlistment, you know, on the enlisted side. And so you're, it's a four year commitment that you have to basically do whatever you're told. And, it's, it's an interesting prospect to, see how that really comes to be. You know, for example, I have a tattoo that really reflects that. I,
Lindsay (19:32.642)
Okay.
Mike (19:59.081)
During the first time I went to Iraq in 2003, we were training for being.
having gas attacks from Saddam Hussein who used, you know, poison missiles and poison gas on his own people to quell rebellions. And so we were being prepared for that. And my job as the newest guy to my unit was I was designated if they
We're pretty sure it was okay to take off your mask, but not totally sure they would take my mask off and observe me and take my rifle away and, and just see if I made it or not. And I laughed at first cause I thought they were kidding. And they said, no, you're not important to the mission. You're the newest person.
Lindsay (20:32.348)
my.
Lindsay (20:43.526)
my god.
Mike (20:45.671)
And so I got a tattoo on my back that says expendable, just because I had to laugh about that. was like, well, like I'm government property. So but I enlisted, I enlisted and I chose to do that. you know, I definitely would would do it all over again, because I think for me, the positives far outweigh the negatives. So but we had to.
Lindsay (21:06.538)
And the positives. Can you just give me like an idea of what what those are? Because hearing what you just told me is very upsetting to people who've never heard that before. Like. I never heard something like that before, and you're my friend, so I feel like that's. It's hard for me to know.
Mike (21:19.549)
Yeah, yeah.
Mike (21:24.994)
Yeah, so it's hard to comprehend, right? So one of the things that are positives, I learned how to serve and serve even when things get tough. I learned discipline, which helped me out in my, I guess you'd call it a career in endurance sports.
Lindsay (21:46.956)
Yeah.
Mike (21:50.277)
I learned really what love is in terms of being able to sacrifice for other people and be able to go through hardship with other people to achieve a greater purpose. And so I think these intangible skills go outside of political beliefs and they transcend how I feel personally about the war, how people feel about certain conflicts.
I learned how to, to, to laugh through adversity when things are really tough, you know, be able to find, you know, cling onto some small thing that's going right. And so there's so many parallels to, to endurance sports, I think, and just being a good husband, father, family member, coworker that really co -hosts. thank you.
Lindsay (22:42.658)
cohost.
Mike (22:50.258)
Yeah, but there's it's it's a so for me the positives outweigh and then I you know even outside of the war I felt like I was able to serve the country and I'm beautiful forever grateful for that because it's changed my attitude in life in terms of what what more can I do to serve other people what more can I do to help and
I don't think I would have gotten that as much. I had a little background doing that with my church growing up, but not to the level I had in the military.
Lindsay (23:23.904)
Right, I mean, as far as I know, you're not putting your life on the line with church. So it's definitely a different level of commitment. know what I mean? Well, I appreciate you breaking that down for me and probably for other people, just because like I said, there's no real way for us to even understand the experiences people are having.
Mike (23:32.627)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Lindsay (23:52.768)
while the war is going on because what you guys are doing and what we've seen here back here is not the same, know, which I understand.
Lindsay (24:07.116)
They don't want to freak out the whole country by showing people or do you know what I mean? Like I was a little taken aback just now when you told me that about taking your mask off. if we were just watching the news and they were like, look what we're doing to this guy, people would lose it. Right. So I get why. But at the same time, it makes it hard for us to support people when they're coming back to understand. Like I'm I'm empathetic. Like I know people go get PTSD and I understand.
why in terms of the level of violence. But there's no like knowledge on my part that I can even kind of, I'm just like, I feel horrible. What can I do? You know, kind of thing.
Mike (24:50.537)
Yeah, it's different. It's different too, because we're as a public removed from it and say like World War Two, I think 25 % of the population, at least of males were involved in the war effort in the military. then since the draft is, you know, same with Korea and Vietnam. And then since it became an all volunteer force, we just know less people as the general public who are in because it's a smaller group of people it's been drawn from.
Lindsay (25:10.903)
Mm
Right, right.
Mike (25:17.107)
You know, so we're naturally more removed from it. And you're right, I think news can be sensationalized and bent for to fit political agendas. And so you're not getting the human story as much. And, you know, it's at a certain point, you know,
Lindsay (25:29.983)
No.
Mike (25:37.819)
I people, know, the longer a conflict or something drags on, it's hard to maintain that level of empathy without being crushed. So people detach from it. And it's just a natural human thing. So I, whereas, you know, before I used to be really upset, like when I got back that some people are like, I got back and I had this transformative experience in war and people didn't even know that the war was still going on. People I was from my hometown. So
Lindsay (25:43.286)
Mm -hmm.
Lindsay (25:47.522)
Mm
Lindsay (25:59.234)
Mm
Lindsay (26:02.476)
Yeah.
Mike (26:05.907)
feel alienated but I understand you know it was none of this was done maliciously it's just how it was so yeah we got little dogs now yeah
Lindsay (26:10.198)
Yep. Do I hear dogs? Not to interrupt you, but I hear dogs. Wow. I appreciate you breaking that down. look, he's like, Dad needs some kisses. You sent me a really amazing picture while you were in DC of you visiting a friend, but you were in it. Was it in Arlington Cemetery or?
Mike (26:37.363)
Yeah.
Mike (26:42.601)
Yeah, Orleans National Cemetery. It was my good friend David Hawk and I went through infantry school with him and we're stationed in the same unit and he was killed in the Battle Fallujah along with 20 others. Guys in my unit, my battalion. I hadn't visited him before since he died. I went in 2009.
Lindsay (27:09.58)
Mm.
Mike (27:10.473)
and got to the front gate and just said, no, I can't do this. And so I went and saw him and was very overwhelmed. lot of tears, lot of sobbing, crying and grief had been built up over the last 20 years. And I just got to spend some time in the quiet there.
just talking to him, thinking about him, thinking about the times we had and, trying to make sense of it all. You know, I, there's, there's not too many, it was so overwhelming that there was not a lot of coherent thought. was mostly just grief and like letting myself experience that.
Lindsay (27:52.268)
Do feel like it was helpful to do that cathartic or is it just bringing back up negative feelings or I mean?
Mike (28:06.097)
It was very cathartic. And I think that's a more of a testament to the support I've gotten since I've gotten back. And that when I've been able to process and therapy, what I've been able to process through support through, you my family and friends. And, and, you know, I texted his mom, I texted Dave's mom that day and said, Hey, I'm visiting Dave today. And
Lindsay (28:30.228)
Mike (28:31.439)
sent her some pictures and it made her really happy and that made a big difference too. Just you know she like many parents who lose a son or daughter in military services they don't want them to be forgotten. It's a big deal and so not only did I feel better for for visiting but I felt better that she felt better and so it was
Lindsay (28:53.206)
Mm
Mike (28:59.773)
It was really nice to be able to have that kind of relationship with his mom now and be able to talk to her about it. So it was, yeah, it was, I never thought I could do it because I was in front of like, we went there and it wasn't just me. It was a man who's now Lieutenant Colonel, who was my platoon commander back in the day, a man who was a Colonel who was my company commander back in the day. The guys were in charge of me, you know, and
Lindsay (29:03.052)
That's awesome. Well, I'm proud of you for going.
Lindsay (29:21.034)
Right. Yeah.
Lindsay (29:27.295)
Yeah, you're not known for at least in the public eye, you're not known for a lot of tears.
Mike (29:29.213)
Marines don't really cry in front of other Marines. It's not part of the training. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I was, I was okay with it. I see, you know, they were, everyone was okay with it. And even if people, my goal for the weekend, I knew it was going to be emotional was to normalize grief and try to model that for other people. And, and
practice that myself because I talk about it so much in my professional life. You know, walking the walk when it comes down to it.
Lindsay (30:01.28)
Yeah, which is pretty brave. I have to say, very proud of you for doing that. It's hard to... The grief I have for things is much less... The cause of the grief is less intense. And still sometimes I... Yeah, it's pain. look at this guy. There's another dog. He's got a couple of dogs and they've now come to visit the recording. So if you're not watching the video.
Mike (30:23.219)
Pain's pain.
Mike (30:30.821)
Yeah. Yeah. For those of you watching this on YouTube or whatever my little docs in this, you can see him. This is Davey Oscar. He was laying on me now.
Lindsay (30:38.38)
He's so cute. He's just like cuddled in. He's like, I'm sleepy in these arms.
Lindsay (30:48.93)
So I was just mentioning that I would say I've experienced it hard, being hard to share grief or to be willing to cry in front of somebody else for things that are a lot less intense. I just don't want to do it. So for you to be able to do it outwardly with Marines is pretty brave, actually.
Mike (31:17.619)
Thank you. Thank you. You know, when it comes down to it, Lindsay, it's just not being as genuine as possible is just feels like life's too short for that. You know, there's, there's a certain way I want to hold my bearing intact when I am in a professional setting, but
Life's too short, for example, for me to tell the guys I served with and their family members how much I care about them and pretend, you know, pretend that that's not the case. So, yeah, that's what I'm so grateful even for an experience that was so overwhelmingly difficult. I'm so grateful for it because it helped me put in perspective what's important in life.
Lindsay (31:45.602)
Mm
Lindsay (31:49.035)
Right.
Mike (32:08.637)
And that's that statement I want to qualify because I'm not happy that it took a destruction of a city and lots of deaths on the American side and the Iraqi side for that to happen. But it is the silver lining I can take out of it.
Lindsay (32:18.465)
Right.
Lindsay (32:21.962)
Right, right. Yeah, I mean, and you have to, because that's what happened. that's OK. I mean, it's OK. It's maybe what everyone wanted to have, but that's what happened. So you can't say like.
You can't act like it didn't happen and you don't need to act like it was your favorite thing, but being in reality with it is probably the healthiest. So.
Mike (32:46.749)
Yeah, right. All right.
Lindsay (32:50.006)
That's kind of what I was referring to earlier, obviously in a much less serious way, the battle with mental health challenges, that giving us a little bit of an advantage in terms of being able to enjoy regular life and understand how beautiful that can be and what a blessing it can be. It's that juxtaposition of like,
something that's really challenging and hard against just regular life. It's like, regular life is good. That's the silver lining of having a challenge like that.
Mike (33:21.885)
Yes.
Mike (33:35.613)
I agree with you, Lindsay. And I see this a lot with people who are more sensitive than others. And I don't think that's a bad thing. I think that in that case, and just like in the case of other mental health challenges, that it's a lot of stimuli coming at you.
But once you learn how to direct that and focus that and use that and take that in to where it's not overwhelming, I think the quality of life can be even better. Because you have the awareness of what's going on. You have the ability to take it in. So I'm with you. I wouldn't change my life at all. I wouldn't change. I mean, I change the wreckage I cause people. I would like to take that back.
Lindsay (34:04.021)
Agreed.
Right.
Lindsay (34:10.732)
Mm -hmm.
Lindsay (34:20.876)
Mm
Lindsay (34:24.778)
Right. Same, same. Sometimes when I go to meetings, I'll hear people say, I'm a grateful alcoholic and they mean, they mean what we're talking about. Like life on the other side, life and sobriety is really great. And because of what we've been through already. And when I was new in sobriety, I was like, fuck them. So stupid.
Mike (34:26.579)
but I wouldn't change the challenges I have.
Mike (34:40.402)
Yeah.
Lindsay (34:52.355)
Right. Yeah, I wanted to go through exactly. I'm like, they're full. I just didn't think anyone was actually going to. I I got sober thinking, well, life's over, know.
Mike (34:55.366)
Yeah exactly. Yeah shut the fuck up.
Mike (35:09.043)
Yeah. Life's gonna be boring now. I'm gonna sit around and do puzzles and fold laundry.
Lindsay (35:10.978)
which I do both of those things and I'm happy about. Well, know, it's it. So last year I had 20 years of sobriety in November and I officially have been sober longer than I drank, which is amazing. Very happy about that. And and I'm one of those, you know.
Mike (35:35.997)
Wow. Yeah.
Lindsay (35:37.544)
grateful alcoholic people and I'll see a newcomer just roll their eyes in the back of their head and I'm like, I totally get it. I totally get it. If you stick around, you'll realize I'm not an idiot. You know what I mean? Like you'll realize, but I wouldn't, you know, yes, the wreckage I caused in my family, if I could avoid that, I would have. But the person I am today includes me having gone through what I went through and
Mike (35:50.087)
Yeah.
Lindsay (36:06.86)
So from that perspective, I'm grateful, but I have other things too that like I have ADHD, have bipolar too. And over the course of my sobriety, I've gotten in touch with what these other challenges are and I have a better understanding of this drive to drink in the first place wasn't just situational or anything like that. was like,
I had a lot happening in my head. I wanted, I needed relief and I didn't have tools. Not to say I wouldn't have been an alcoholic anyway. I mean, I would have it. My dad, my biological dad was an alcohol. mean, I drank just like him without ever meeting him, you know, until I was an adult, but it's sort of like, giving me the opportunity now to
Mike (36:36.211)
Mm -hmm.
Lindsay (36:58.86)
forgive the younger version of me who made these choices that led to me having to ultimately get sober. Because it's like, well, untreated bipolar and then ADHD that's fairly severe, trying to white knuckle through that, just thinking, I'm bad or I'm whatever because I have a short attention span or because, but I have a fast brain. So like in school, they skip grades, they skip me grades so that I would.
have too much work to be disruptive. But then that causes other things like I was too immature to be in that grade. I was overloaded with work and then would fail because I couldn't do it all or whatever, not fail. I'd get A's, but you know what I mean? I'd feel like a failure. So it's amazing to be sober and to be able to be like, it's just this. I just need to do these behavioral things and these meds and it's better. Is it perfect? No. Do I still?
Mike (37:41.931)
yeah.
Lindsay (37:57.378)
walk into a room and completely forget why I walked in there for my ADHD all day every day. I don't have to take 50 ,000 notes so I can remember what I'm doing. Yes, but it's better and I don't have to be like, I'm flawed and therefore I'm a piece of crap.
Mike (38:06.941)
Yeah.
Lindsay (38:18.465)
You
Mike (38:21.693)
Yes, exactly. Exactly. that's being able to recognize what's happening and not see it as a moral failing. But you know, you and I in some similar and some different ways have synapses that fire differently than other people.
Lindsay (38:37.3)
That is true. Your dual diagnosis, too, I think I vaguely remember you saying. Yes, the bipolar bipolar to club is an interesting one, especially when we light things on fire out of. Which, you know,
Mike (38:49.469)
Yep, I got bipolar too as well. So I'm part of that club.
Mike (39:01.011)
fucking lid.
Lindsay (39:07.158)
brings me to another thought. have a mutual friend who I know a lot of people who listen to this. This is a mutual friend of theirs as well. That's bipolar one, a little bit different, a lot different actually. A lot more intense. And this was one of the.
Mike (39:07.835)
Yeah, exactly.
Lindsay (39:32.623)
a catalyst for me going, I want to do this podcast again. A, I miss Mike. B, I just miss doing it and talking to people. I love to chat, as we all know. But also just like the conversation around mental health and continuing to normalize it is really, really important, I think. And my friend kind of going off the rails.
and having interactions with people who were completely confused by this, which
You know, the intensity with which they are battling with their, like the intensity of their mental illness is very shocking, I guess I would say. But at the same time, I'm like, yeah, I'm totally aware that people can just throw their life away. But it's not like they're aware that that's what's happening.
Mike (40:43.102)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And the thing about it too, that I can tell you as somebody, when I came back with post traumatic stress disorder, a lot of times, unless you've had a specific medical personnel or a therapist tell you, you don't know what's happening. It's just confusion and chaos and, and
you don't like it, you know? So I wouldn't say, I'm having an intrusive thought because I have post -traumatic stress disorder with, you know, survivor's guilt and moral injury. So I'm having these, you know, it was just a lot of chaos that I didn't like and I felt bad and I reached for the next thing that would help me solve it, which was chemical, specifically alcohol. So a lot of people suffering don't know it.
Lindsay (41:26.678)
Yeah.
Lindsay (41:33.504)
Right, right. Yeah, and I think that that's sort of the situation here is like, they need meds to control the bipolar, but the disease itself is in the mind. So the disease is saying, that's not true. You don't need meds. You're not bipolar. You don't need to do this. These people are wrong. And that's the same thing that happened with me with alcohol. It's like,
Mike (41:34.589)
where even if they know it, it can be so intense that when it's happening, they can't stop.
Lindsay (42:00.364)
faced with evidence that there was a problem. My mind was still like, no, there's not. You're just partying because you are a fun, good time girl. It's like, really? Because it seems pretty depressing and dark, but.
That's the thing about mental illness is that it's in your head. like, how do you get help when you need to ask for help, but it's in your head telling you you don't need help. mean, that's, that's We could do a whole series of shows on the mental health, like services that are available in the nation in California. A lot of great stuff.
Mike (42:35.247)
paradox isn't it? Yeah.
Lindsay (42:46.07)
but also a lot of rules and bureaucracy that are in place for really good reasons, but then also have a negative impact on someone like our friend because they're just allowed to do what they feel they need to do without anyone impeding their progress because they have to ask for help, you know?
Mike (42:48.935)
Yeah, yes.
Mike (43:18.951)
Right. And what I can say on that is for those people wondering what we're talking about, some people who need to be hospitalized, at least it's very state to state, but at least here in California where we are.
You have to be a grave danger to yourself or others or not be able to take care of yourself to such a low level that they will hospitalize you involuntarily. you're just a hair above that, but you're really suffering, there's no legal recourse for people to be hospitalized and get the help they need. So it's a tough spot that a lot of people find themselves in.
veterans, a lot of civilians that I see and you see find their self in that. And so it's just heartbreaking knowing that they have to be the ones to seek help. like you said, if the conditions in your mind and your brain, then people telling you, it's telling you you don't need to, then you're not gonna.
Lindsay (44:16.82)
even faced with evidence that things aren't going well. So the last I heard they were living in their car and one of the thoughts, talking to our friend, Peggy, friend of the show, she's gonna be on an upcoming episode. And she had brought this up, which is that this friend has been an advocate for mental health awareness and.
though unable to actually actively do that right now, they're that's still in a way happening because people who,
know them who didn't previously have maybe empathy for homeless people are kind of like, that person who's over there may not have actually been like, it may not be their choice.
They may not be just some whatever. So Peggy was saying, you know, she previously was like annoyed, like, and now it's like, but this person that I know and love is basically in that situation. And so I don't know what this other person's going through. That person probably has a family and friends that are missing them just the way our friend has, you And so causing a little bit more empathy for, for that and understanding. So I think that's good.
Mike (45:21.064)
Yeah.
Lindsay (45:44.738)
Wait, that's a, so Mike has a different dog now in his lap if you're not watching it on YouTube. It's a pug, right?
Mike (45:45.443)
you
Mike (45:55.379)
I have a different dog. He's starting to stir the shit so I had to get him out of there. But this is probably a good place to leave off for now.
Lindsay (45:57.282)
Yeah, absolutely. think so too. Okay, well, let's see. Next week, it's going to be very different episode than this week. We're going to be talking to my friend Michelle, who's on my team, on Team Sheeper. And she is an ultra distance athlete. And this year, she is doing three 200 mile running races.
which to me is insane. So we like to talk about endurance sports here. We like to talk about mental health. Just the fact that she signed up for three 200 mile races to me says insanity. So we're going to talk to her a little bit about how she does that, why she does it, how she's feeling. She's done two out of the three. So that's pretty cool. yeah, so that's going to be next week.
Mike (47:02.306)
looking forward to that too. So thank you everybody for listening. Thank you Lindsay for being an awesome co -host as always and we'll see you all next time.
Lindsay (47:05.342)
One quick note to you guys, please share our podcast wherever you're listening to this podcast. it's Apple, if it's Apple podcast or Spotify or Pocket Cast, wherever you're listening, please like and subscribe for automatic downloads because it really helps us out. yeah, we'll see you next week. Bye.
Mike (47:18.857)
Please.
Mike (47:39.698)
All right, y 'all, take care.
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